3 Critical Career Mistakes Engineering Leaders Make ft. Limor Bergman Gross

Limor: 00:00

It's frustrating, right? I will share from my personal experience and from some of my clients. It happens a lot of times because we are so too focused on about being good at what we do on execution, which is important, right?

I mean, we all need to do a good work. The problem is, especially when you grow into higher levels manager, but even beyond that, it's not enough. People need to know you. People need to know your impact. Because a lot of times those decisions are not just being made by your manager. And this is one of the common mistakes, right? We feel, my manager, they know what I'm doing. I'm sharing them every one-on-one and all that. That's going to be enough. It's not enough.

Mark: 00:36

Welcome to the CTO Compass podcast. I'm your host, Mark Wormgoor, tech strategist and executive coach. In every episode, we meet tech leaders from startup CTOs to enterprise CIOs to explore what it means to lead in tech today. They share their stories and their lessons so that you can navigate your own journey in tech. Let's dive into today's episode. Today's guest is going to talk about something that I've been through myself and I think a lot of us have been through or are struggling with. It's that step from being full on in engineering, doing all of the hardcore work, whether it's infrastructure or coding, and then actually getting into leadership and that entire transition. - Limor Bergman Gross, thank you. Welcome on the podcast today. Before we get into all the questions and everything that we just talked about, what do I need to know about your background? What can you tell me that tells us about how you ended up where you are today.

Limor: 01:35

Okay, so first of all, hi Mark. Pleasure speaking with you and thank you for having me. What can I say?

So I started my career as a software engineer. To be honest, I mean, I went to tech just because I didn't know anything better, right? It was just easy. Because I was there. Good at STEM and I started as a software engineer. At some point, I ended up in leadership, but it wasn't clear from the beginning. And I think this is something that I want to kind of, you know, As I introduced myself to share with our listeners. Because, you know, I have so many clients today.

So today I coach. And I have so many clients. Share with me. I don't know. Is leadership for me, is management for me.

So I didn't know that I wanted to become a manager. And, you know, I realized that only after I grew as an IC and at the point that I got into staff engineer. I started thinking, okay, what's next? And I didn't see myself becoming a senior staff, a principal engineer, distinguished engineer, depending on the company, right? Each company has their own.

And then I became a manager and I grew as a manager of engineers and then a director of engineering. Along the way, I started a family. I have four children.

So yes, it is possible to have both. This is another question, you know, that a lot of mainly women kind of debate with along the way moved countries.

So I'm in Israel right now, but we used to live in the US for nine years.

Mark: 03:06

That's quite, and you've had some... Well, you've held director roles at a well-known company, I would say, DigitalOcean. Tell us a bit about that period when you worked over there.

Limor: 03:16

Wow, this was an incredible period. First of all, DigitalOcean was my first remote fully remote work.

ached out to me at the end of: 2015

So it was first of all, my first fully remote position managing people remote. Which at first I didn't even think possible. And it was my first smaller company. It wasn't that small. It was about 150 people startup when I started. And I liked the... Ability to make an impact to be more in control, less processes. More freedom.

Yeah, it was incredible time.

Mark: 04:13

Nice. Yeah. And I think that helps if you actually have the background yourself.

I mean, you have this Director role, it was, I mean, DigitalOcean is a company that we all know very well. I've been a customer, not anymore, I've moved on, but I've been a customer for years myself. I think it's something that we all know well, so it's incredible. You talked about The people that you coach and people that you work with and people that ask you How do you answer that question?

Limor: 04:43

That's a tricky question because... It depends. I, you know, it depends. Whether you are Passionate about solving technical problems yourself, about architecture, about coding. How much are you passionate about it? Versus working with people and enabling others. I think that's the main distinction.

Mark: 05:06

Yeah, and I think if I look at myself, first, 10 years of my career, I was that first person, right? The person or the person I've loved technology. And I think for me, it actually changed over my lifetime that I that passion for people grew with me. I would say I still have the passion for technology, but the passion for people actually evolved as I got older. And maybe that's it. I don't know if you see that. Does age? Affected.

Limor: 05:29

Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes it's about your age or like you've been there, done that. Although, you know, nowadays, Mark, because of... AI, I feel like things are changing so rapidly.

So it's always going to be interesting. And I do think that even when you grow in leadership, you're still... You still remain technical, but in a different way. And I think the main question to ask someone if, you know, if they're thinking about it, How are you going to feel when you're not the one?

Solving the problem yourself. Are you? Are you able to let that go? Because I know it's so hard.

Yeah.

Mark: 06:15

Absolutely. It is hard. I remember it as well when I first had to let go and having to depend on other people to solve the problems who are And at least in your personal opinion, not as good as you are.

Limor: 06:26

Of.

Mark: 06:27

Course, what we all think. I know it's what we all think and it's never true, but still it's the feeling that we have. The next thing that you talk about is people that have made that decision that want to go into that director role, manager role, director role, and they're not getting there or they're failing to get there. What happens normally when People just don't get that promotion.

Limor: 06:49

Yeah, and it's frustrating, right? I mean, I will share from my personal experience and from some of my clients. It happens a lot of times because we are too focused on about being good at what we do. On execution, which is, Right.

I mean, we all need to do a good work. The problem is. Death. Especially when you grow into higher levels, right?

I mean... Manager, but even beyond that. It's not enough. People need to know you. People need to know your impact. Because a lot of times those decisions are not just being made by your manager. And this is one of the common mistakes, right? We feel, my manager, they know what I'm doing. I'm sharing with them every one-on-one and all that. That's going to be enough. It's not What is enough?

Mark: 07:35

Enough. So what is enough? What do you do?

Limor: 07:39

Yeah. So I think it's about being strategic, first of all, about what you want. And what's the impact that you're going to make. Building strategic relationships.

So thinking about Who are the important people that should know you? And Know your value to the organization and the impact that you're going to make. And by the way, those are not necessarily people in leadership positions.

Like, for example, you know, some of the times there are architects, Staff engineer, senior staff, like it could be multiple people. Not just people in leadership positions. And building those connections genuinely. From place of curiosity, from understanding What they do. How you can help, bring it perspective.

So it's a process, right? You build relationships that will be genuine and provide value. Another thing is like, How can you actually make an impact? At let's say a director level before you're actually promoted. I can share that I always waited for someone to tell me, right? Okay, now you're promoted. This is your responsibility. You don't have to do that. You don't have to wait because there are always opportunities. To solve problems that no one is solving. You just have to identify those and start solving them. Show that you are a material for whatever it is, manager or director.

Mark: 09:12

So just show up front that you're ready before getting the title and before getting a promotion. On the first part you said The networking, the stakeholder management, it sounds so... I know that's the feedback that I get from a lot of people. It's so artificial. I have to reach out to this person to tell them how good I am, or I have to go and show my project to this other person just to expand my network or to... Actually take credibility for it and I don't feel comfortable. What do you tell people to that objection?

Limor: 09:44

And that's totally... Natural and I agree. You don't want...

So I'll just share a quick story. I had a senior director at one of the companies I worked at and he was just focused on making himself visible and scheduling one-on-ones with different kind of executives. And it didn't work because it just, okay, I'm just going to spend your time to hear me out and all that. You have to find people that You can build relationships that are based on mutual benefits and really be curious first to focus on them, what is important to them. What problems do they have? How can you help? Because we tend to think inward about what we want to achieve I want visibility. I want this person to know me.

So I'm going to talk with them and share what I'm doing. Think. They had a way around.

Mark: 10:41

So thinking about what the other people, what they need, what they want, and then helping them and just building credibility by.

Limor: 10:47

Being there for them. Yeah, and like for me, it led me to doing different, taking on different initiatives, right?

I mean... I don't remember all the details, but we had like a problem, a digital ocean, we test flakiness and the environments were not reliable.

So I initiated like a working group. From different kind of parts of the organization. And we try to tackle that. And it wasn't something that anyone asked for. And that's how I started building relationship with other people. The best is to solve Try to be curious and figure out other problems that we can solve together.

Mark: 11:25

Nice. And about your own career, when did you get that? One promotion that for you made The difference from I'm a really good engineer to now I'm suddenly a team lead or a manager. And how did that promotion happen?

Limor: 11:39

Yeah, so... I think the meaningful change in my career was when I became a manager for the first time. And it happened in a timing that would look the worse.

So I was very frustrated with my career. I was a staff engineer for several years, and I knew that I wanted to become a manager, but I didn't know how to do that. And what happened was that I was pregnant actually with my second child, and an opening. For a manager happen, right? The worst timing, I was eight months pregnant. And I was like, okay, that's a bummer. I'm not going to get it. That's what I thought. And luckily for me, my husband actually told me like, So what? Go and knowing myself. What's the worst that can happen? And I remember like... Going there and I felt ridiculous. I felt like I'm making a fool of myself.

Long story short, eventually I got that role because one of my former managers really advocated for me when I was already at home on maternity leave and I got that position. And that was a big jump for me because I had to start leading a team. It was relatively large. It was the first team of 15 people. I was terrified. I had no clue what I was doing. But that was a major.

Mark: 12:58

Leap for me. And how did you... How did you make that transition? From just hands-on staff engineer to just suddenly managing 15 people.

Limor: 13:06

That was tough. Not the recommended way to do it, I'll tell you.

I mean, originally I was supposed to get a small team and I don't know, something happened when I was on maternity leave and they decided like to broaden the scope. That's not recommended, but I had to. I kind of had no choice. I had to deal with it.

So I was pretty terrified. And I remember like, talking with my manager at the time and I told him this, I mean, I've never managed. Now you give me a large team. Give me some help. - He gave me a coach. She was not really helpful, to be honest, because she didn't come from tech background and... She never managed before.

So she was like asking me a lot of questions. It was very frustrating.

And then... I found a mentor, I found a manager within the company, a very experienced one, It wasn't like originally supposed to be like a formal mentoring or anything. I just reach out. Hey, can I talk to you? I have this, I don't know what to do here.

So I started formulating those mentoring relationships and he really helped me a lot. Every time I was doing something I felt uncomfortable with, I went to talk to him.

Mark: 14:18

That's a great piece of advice for anyone that And I That's a given after any promotion is in a

new role.

Limor: 14:21

Made a ton of mistakes. I made a ton of mistakes.

Mark: 14:28

You have to make those mistakes to learn. I think seeking out a mentor I think it's good advice for anyone that either wants to go into management or just starts in management. Before we jump back in, here is something that I've learned from over 30 years of working in technology. The hardest part of leadership, it's not the technology. And it's not even the people or the teams. It's often that you're added alone by yourself. There's no one in the room that fully gets what you're dealing with. There's no one that you can trust to discuss your decision with. If that sounds familiar, find me on LinkedIn. Mark Wormgoor, and tell me what's in your mind. There's no pitch, just a discussion with somebody who's sat in a chair as well. Let's get back to it. A lot of the people or objections that I hear about this or the people that I coach with, they say, I'm just too busy. I have all this work that I need to do and I don't have time to build relationship with others or I don't have time to be more strategic just because there is so much hands-on work, day-to-day work that I have to do. What do you tell them?

Limor: 15:32

First of all, Very natural. I'm sure they're busy. I think that the problem is... The question they need to ask themselves. What am I busy with?

So first, before you even, and that's like, that's clearly articulate the problem. You have too much on your plate, so you don't have time for the important things. Being strategic, right? Thinking strategically, you have to do that as a leader. And like, that's not optional. You have to first look at how you spend your time. They are common things. Common challenges. Not delegating enough. Which is... It's always like a challenge, right? As you grow, You have to feel more comfortable to let some things go. And be willing... To trust someone else, they will do a good job and they will not do it the way you would do it. They will do it differently. And it's hard. It's always hard. Second thing is prioritization. Which I I face all the time. Everything is important, everything is urgent, everything is critical. And one of the toughest decisions as a leader is to actually decide what you're not doing right now. And I've seen that at all levels. How do you prioritize? Third thing, Pushing back. Especially for newer leaders. When a product person or someone tells you, we must do this now. Do you challenge them? Do you ask them, okay, why can you share more? What's going to happen if we're not going to do this feature right now? Pushing back, you have to really defend Those are, I would say, the main things. Not delegating, not prioritizing and deciding what not to do and not pushing back.

Mark: 17:26

I agree with all three. I think those are very simple. I think they're hard to do in real life. It's hard, I know.

Limor: 17:33

It's hard, but you have to start practicing. I believe in small steps, right? Taking small steps.

So next time you speak with someone who asks you to do something, ask them Some questions. So start small. Start practicing it.

Mark: 17:49

And then... After that promotion, so you have the promotion, you start managing a bit of a large team for the first team lead role, but you grew into director roles. How do you promote all of this within your own team? How do you give feedback and how do you grow your own team to do Exactly what you just said.

Limor: 18:08

Yeah, once you do that, you have to identify who are the... First of all, I mean... Leadership is about identifying each person what's going to work with them? What's not going to work with them? What they care about and how you can grow them in a way that is meaningful to them. And I'll give an example like I had someone, a brilliant engineer, And he was a tech leader.

Right? So he was really good at architecture and everything like that. But He really didn't like to present anything. He was very introverted.

Like to solve problems, didn't like so much to lead others. So I have to find a way it's all about trying to understand, okay, this person is really good at something. That's where they're passionate. That's going to be the right growth for them.

So for him, for example, it was more, okay, architecture, solving technical problems. I had to identify someone else that had more tendency to lead people, to talk with people and encourage. It was actually a woman engineer encouraging her to step up.

So you have to kind of identify and challenge them. Always challenged with something that maybe they feel uncomfortable doing. Not terrified, but uncomfortable and challenge them to do that and coach them along the way. One of the things I would say, Mark, Not telling people... How to do things, challenging them and coaching them. We have a tendency to want to give people all the answers and then they become dependent on us.

So I would say if someone is struggling with giving feedback, yeah, you can have some discussions with them, but eventually they have to practice it.

Mark: 19:54

Yeah, true. And what I love about today, and I think that's, but that's. Not in my career. It's 2026 now. You can just ask AI anything, right?

So if I'm not going to give feedback, you don't have to go to your manager and say, how do I get feedback? You can ask chat GPT and you'll get it. A pretty decent, I mean, a pretty decent answer, I would say so.

Limor: 20:14

For sure. Yeah. And giving feedback is actually something that is very difficult, especially for engineers. And I do. A lot of work on that. And I, we do sometimes role plays.

Mark: 20:27

What's your, what kind of advice do you give on giving feedback to people? What's your prescription?

Limor: 20:34

First of all, I share usually two resources that I really like. One is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. I really like her book. And the other one is SBI, the SBI Framework, Situation, Behavior, Impact.

So the thing I would say with feedback is really hard because on one hand, you want to be Good. Like you want to be nice. You don't want to hurt anyone. But on the other hand, you have to be direct. How to combine those two. And There's no way around it. You have to share. Feedback in a clear way. That can be understood. That they will understand what you want to say.

So SBI is really useful to share like, hey, I noticed that in a meeting you were doing X, Y, Z and whatever the impact was. And pause. Don't try to solve it at once. This is another. I think we try to solve everything just. Say what you want to say as much as possible based on facts and not like emotions or anything.

Cause and let the other person react to that and ask them how they see it, how they feel about it. I know it's hard to talk about feelings as a genius, but we are working with people.

So we have to be careful about it and sensitive enough.

Mark: 21:56

And radical candor, just for those of us who haven't or are not aware of it, what is that?

Limor: 22:01

Yeah, Radical Candor, it's a book by... James Scott, and he talks She has like four quadrants about How do you kind of... And it has two axes. One of them is about how direct you are versus indirect and one of them is how kind of sensitive you are to people like I probably not describing the best way, but and radical candor is where you care personally and challenge directly. It's exactly like where you should be and the balance between being empathetic but being direct.

Mark: 22:44

So giving very direct feedback, but with full empathy and care for the person that is receiving I love that.

Limor: 22:49

That. Exactly, yeah.

Mark: 22:52

Nice. You work or mostly work with women that are in engineering. Positions that are in leadership or want to go into leadership. How does that differ from all the men that I'm sure you've worked with?

Limor: 23:07

Yeah, so every person is different, but there are several Things I see with women and I face that personally too, right? First of all, we are fewer.

So always when you're different, right? When I work with mostly men around me, so I felt like, okay, I'm not exactly like everyone else. I'm different.

Like maybe they like sports. So it's about sensing of belonging and feel comfortable and think like you're worthy. And you belong there.

So it's a lot about confidence and feel like yeah, And thinking about You're different, but it's actually a positive thing. It's not a bad thing. I'm relatively quiet, introverted. I'm not saying that men, there are not a lot of men engineers that are like that. And I kind of, I used to think about it as a deficiency and I learned that it's actually a strength because I am very empathetic. I'm a great listener. I ask a lot.

So kind of identify, you know, so women, a lot of times we tend to judge ourselves too harshly and compare ourselves to men and think, because I'm not like that person, something is wrong with me. And I don't think it's like... We wait. I mentioned it before. We wait for permission. We wait for someone to tell us. We are ready. And we're afraid to be proactive and to be bold. I think men are bolder in general from what I've seen in tech. And the men I manage, they're not afraid to say, I want to. Promotion, I want more money, I want this and women A lot of times we feel uncomfortable with that. We feel uncomfortable talking about our achievements.

Mark: 24:50

If you then go to your in-depth promotion, your past this promotion, you're now in this first role. And like you said, you have to manage your team, give them feedback, but you suddenly have to manage all these executive stakeholder relationship and have all these difficult conversations. How do you coach people to start having those discussions? Which is very.

Limor: 25:09

Different. This is different. It's really hard to say in general what to do because it really depends on the executives and how to approach them and the company. I always start, and I mentioned it before, about what's in it for them, what they care about.

Sometimes there is a gap between what we see as important and critical to what executives look at. Something very common, right? As engineers, engineering leader, we care a lot of times about engineering efficiencies, engineering excellence, tech debt, and all those stuff. Which usually executives don't care.

So they want to hear, okay, how do you make me more money? How do we make the customers happy?

So the business... Side of things where we a lot of times look at Like the executions and all that.

So... A lot of times it's a gap about How do you actually speak in a language that someone in executive role will care about. And we're not taught those things, right?

I mean, we know how to solve problems. We know how to look at technologies. We're not taught how to think in business ways. And we have to start doing that.

Mark: 26:30

So how do you learn that? Because indeed, I mean, we can talk, I'll talk about sprint points and we can talk about tech debt and about, right, Jira or whatever is going to happen next. This is so different from everything that we've learned in the past 10 or 20 years as engineers.

Yeah. Where do we start?

Limor: 26:47

Yeah, that's a good question. So first of all, now we can learn pretty much everything like on AI, right? But what I did... I started... I was just curious, so I started meeting with different people at different functions and talk with them. About what is, and that kind of serve the purpose of building the relationships, right? What do they care about? What keeps them up at night? And being curious, hearing about... Attending, you know, a lot of times there are those company...

Yeah. Town halls, all hands, whatever they are called. And a lot of times we say, it's a waste of time. It's boring. But sometimes, you know, doing those, actually those sessions. The company leadership share a lot of things. And we can learn a lot about that.

Like what are the priorities for the company? So the more we stay attuned to that, we ask questions, we stay curious, we meet with different people, we can learn more about it.

Mark: 27:53

I love how your guidance about the communication that we talked about at the beginning about building your network, expanding your network. It's just about asking them for their priorities and their, this is the exact same feedback that you're giving for after that promotion. You still, you want to expand. Again, you want to expand your network and build your network and understand. And again, it's just about asking the questions and understanding their interests. I love that.

So.

Limor: 28:19

Yeah, I remember, by the way, that we had those indigenous oceans, we had different kind of, you know, I don't remember how they were called, like all hands or whatever. And people were actually asking a lot of questions.

Like we had a CFO present and people were curious about it. So even you can ask questions.

Some of the executives in your company, like CFO, for example. Okay, tell us. Share with us a little bit from what you can share. About. What's going on about maybe some of the terms that we're not familiar with.

So you can start really getting more up to speed with that.

Mark: 28:58

Yeah, nice. Especially in all hands.

Yeah, I think I remember all those sessions and they're very educational about understanding the rest of the business that isn't technology. A quick one before we continue. If you're getting something out of this conversation, please hit the subscribe button below. That way, other tech leaders can find us as well. I would really appreciate it. Let's get back to it. And if you look back, what are some of the mistakes that you've made where maybe you were too focused on engineering or on the technology and maybe not enough on the leadership side of things?

Limor: 29:30

I think I just waited too long, to be honest. I just waited too long. Instead of being if I took myself like 20 years ago, even more, I would just think about, okay, what do I actually want? And keep asking that, like, on a regular basis. How do I get there?

So exactly what I shared today, I wish I was starting doing that, right? Because I was just doing what I was told to do. For many years. Just okay. That's my role. That's what my manager told me to do. I just change?

Mark: 30:00

And what at some point changed that? For you, how did that.

Limor: 30:06

What changed is that I felt stuck. So I told you like before I was first promoted to a manager role, I was stuck for several years. I was very frustrated. Actually, I was thinking about leaving. And after I started managing, I realized, okay, I asked and I got management role.

So I have to start thinking about it, about what I want. And... Have those conversations and think about who I need to.

So that kind of, shifted my way of thinking.

Mark: 30:38

Nice. So there.

Yeah. And it's, You said originally maybe you wanted to leave, but then I think you got your first big promotion. What's... How did they go? Why did you stick around and then suddenly get promoted? Was it just because there happens to be an opening? The manager role you.

Limor: 30:55

Talked about in my case what happened was that i was just lucky enough that I had someone who managed me in the past, who knew me. And really recommended me for that role. If it wasn't for him, I would probably not get this role because the hiring manager didn't know me very much and As I said, like I was just a pregnant woman going on maternity leave. What are the odds that someone would, I mean, We can. Walk around that, but it's like, it's a challenge, right? Women that are raising kids, it's still... In a way, a disadvantage to us. I wish it wasn't, but to be honest, I mean, I felt like that's not a good timing. And I had women that I managed that were pregnant. I Again, it's not that it should hold back your career, but sometimes it does.

Yeah.

Mark: 31:50

Yeah, I can imagine it's something... Especially if you step out for like four or five months at least yeah you're i mean it's yeah you're out of the company you're out of the role for several months i mean it's That's not something you can skip and it's hard.

Limor: 32:05

Yeah, and I would say another thing after I started managing for the first time, A few years later, you know, we moved to the U.S. And I had to start all over. Basically, I left my job. And it forced me actually to do something I was really scared about. Right. To move to a new country, to leave comfortable job and start all over again? Not all over, but start looking for a job in a new country and I think that helped me grow.

I mean, although it was scary and hard. So sometimes doing those things really is what you need to do. Whatever scares you, right? If you think about, I'm not happy, I'm stuck here. I'm not saying that every time the answer would be leave.

You know, a lot of times we are not even thinking about it because we're so scared of making that leap of, now I have to start interviewing. Now I have to start... Polishing my resume.

Sometimes those are things that we have to.

Mark: 33:07

Do. One of my coaches once said, and I love this advice, The answers that you're looking for are often in the things that scare you. The things that you're avoiding because they're scary. You don't want to do them. And often that's exactly where you're going to find the answers that you're probably looking for. Whatever that is.

Yeah.

Limor: 33:26

That's true.

Mark: 33:27

What other topics regularly come up that about this growth from engineering into executive leadership or like the recurring topics in your coaching?

Limor: 33:37

Conflicts. That's a big one, right?

I mean... How to deal with people that are not like us? It's really hard. And there are a lot of different people in tech, in engineering, a lot of personalities. And we tend to think those are jerks and they're bad people. They're me. Not always, but sometimes, right? We have this conflict with someone and think, they're bad. They're doing this on purpose. How do we deal with all those How do we?

Mark: 34:06

People? And how do we?

Limor: 34:09

Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. By trying as much as possible.

So I think... And I had, I'll be honest, I had worked with some jerks in my career. Excuse my language, but I had that. Not always it helps, but like... At least I tried to come with curiosity and understand their point of view. And their reasoning why they're doing certain things. A lot of time people act the way they do because they have insecurities, or whatever it may be, And that's how they behave. They become aggressive, defensive, whatever. And even if you cannot influence them and you cannot necessarily solve the problem, at least just realizing that it's not anything to do with you, Because a lot of times that can really impact on your confidence, especially for women.

Like I had, you know, I won't forget the first time I worked with a team in Russia many years ago. And one of the Russian engineers wrote Something that really hurt my feeling in a code review. And I don't think he meant to hurt my feelings. But the way he wrote it? It was very direct.

So a lot of times we just make those In our head, a lot of translations about what the other person wrote or said. They say my God, I'm so stupid. I'm not this. And we take it on ourselves instead of saying, okay, that person, that's the way they communicate. I'm not justifying them, but It's them, it's not me. And it really helps with the confidence.

Mark: 35:52

That is not about, not necessarily about you, it's their... Communication style feedback.

Limor: 35:56

Style and the best you can do is try again to be curious to be open-minded to do what you can Yeah. I'm not saying you cannot change the world. You cannot fix anyone. And sometimes with some people it doesn't work.

Sometimes it does. Sometimes just approaching them and having a conversation and trying to understand their motivation and saying like we're on the same page, like we have similar goals. Let's work together.

Sometimes it helps. Sometimes it doesn't.

Mark: 36:27

And that's still okay. It is what it.

Limor: 36:29

Is. It is what it is. Then you have to figure out what to do about it, right?

I mean, if you work in a toxic environment and you really suffer and those people are unbearable and you tried what you could, sometimes you have to make changes. Sometimes you can figure things out.

Mark: 36:46

Yeah, nice. So I think you said visibility about building those relationships, about being more empathetic. And I think you talked about different people. I think we have different people in tech. But as soon as you get promoted, I feel that it gets a lot worse. When you start talking to salespeople, to CFOs, you just mentioned them there.

Yeah. How do you... How do you deal with it then when people become even, I mean, in tech we have this shared understanding of what the world looks like. Maybe in technology, we get to these other people that are so out there, like sales managers, directors, or how do you deal with.

Limor: 37:22

That? Yeah, that's a... E- you have to somehow bridge the gap in how what you're doing and what you care about is eventually meaningful to the other side. If at all. Mike. Hopefully it is, right? Because you work at the same company.

So you should. Eventually have some shared goals. And if a shared goal is to Sell more of something, increase revenue.

So you have to find a way how you can align on something.

Mark: 37:59

Yeah, I think I've struggled with that. I think with sales, that's easier because it's easy, right? They want to sell something, there's money. CFOs I've always struggled with just because they have like one incentive and it's just a cut down cost and in technology we always want to spend more so it feels like there's never a common ground that we can find but that's The reality.

Limor: 38:18

Hard.

Mark: 38:22

Of life. So, Yeah.

So what is it exactly that you do? What kind of? People do you work with, what kind of people do you coach and what is it exactly? Do you coach teams as well? How do you work with them? What does that look like?

Limor: 38:37

Yeah, I work mainly with individuals. And usually There are leaders in tech, usually in engineering. I had people in other functions, not just in engineering, but usually they're in engineering, in leadership. It could be a manager, director. It could be even an IC, depending. And I help them. With either strategy about the promotion of our growth and what it means to them or figuring out what it means to them. Leadership situation, leadership, different leadership challenges that they face. That's another thing that comes up a lot, right?

Someone is in a role. And they need help. They need someone to talk to. A lot of times their manager is not going to be maybe doesn't have enough time. Maybe they don't feel comfortable enough.

So in a way, I'm... Like their manager, but from the outside.

Mark: 39:33

And that reminds me, one of the things that I often see and especially more seniors leaders is loneliness right because there's no one that you can really yeah Talk soon. How do you see that as.

Limor: 39:46

Well? Yeah, you know, one of my clients with it is debating whether to become a manager. He had this... Thinking, if I'm going to become a manager, I'm going to be alone. In a way. In a way, it's true. In a way. Entirely, right? Because you're always going to have colleagues, but yeah, in a way, the more you grow, you go up. The lonelier it gets.

Mark: 40:15

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think that's where a coach like you really helps as well too. Be able to just talk to somebody and vent and talk about everything that's going on.

Limor: 40:26

Yeah, a coach or, you know, sometimes it's about finding a community. There are a lot of Slack communities and online and you know, conferences and meet people in similar row similar situations that you can talk to.

Mark: 40:43

Yeah. That So, and if you then bring it all down to this one question, I'm maybe an individual contributor still, I'm an engineer, or maybe I'm a manager and I'm looking for my next promotion, but I feel Just stuck in the execution and I just don't know where to go next.

Limor: 40:44

Helps a lot.

Mark: 41:00

What I like, what's like the one or two things that they should absolutely stop doing or start doing now?

Limor: 41:05

Yeah, stop doing busy work. So everything that they do, they have to figure out what's the impact. What they're doing.

So, and a lot of times we do a lot of busy work that doesn't, really gets us anywhere. And focusing on impact and doing things that matter. To their organization, to their manager, whatever I mean. Because in order to move to the next level, you need to show that you are capable of operating in that level.

So you have to focus on things that matter. To your leadership.

Mark: 41:40

I love that. If people want to find you online, they're looking for advice, maybe even a coach, where can people go and find you?

Limor: 41:47

On LinkedIn, probably the best. Yeah. There, try to be as Active as a can.

Mark: 41:54

Put your links in the comments below. Absolutely. Limor, thank you for joining me. It's been incredible bringing you on and having you on. And thank you for sharing the stories and all of your As we wrap up another episode of the CTO Compass, thank you for taking the time to invest in you.

Limor: 42:04

Advice. Thank you so much, Mark. It's been a pleasure.

Mark: 42:13

The speed at which tech and AI develop is increasing, demanding a new era of leaders in tech. Leaders that can juggle team and culture, code and infra, cyber and compliance. All whilst working closely with board members and stakeholders. We're here to help you learn from others, set your own goals and navigate your own journey. And until next time. Keep learning. Keep pushing and never stop growing.